Episode 50: California Dreamin’ (The Mamas & The Papas)

It’s our 50th episode and we are celebrating with our first venture into psychedelic rock and a new Patron Saint! Bethanne tells us the story of The Mamas & The Papas, which has no shortage of twists and turns and crazy surprises.

Content warning: This episode contains mentions of drug abuse, sexual abuse and eating disorders.

Show Notes and Images

The Mamas and The Papas were an American folk rock vocal group formed in Los Angeles, California consisting of Cass Elliot, Michelle Phillips, Denny Doherty and John Phillips (spoiler: you probably won’t like him by the end of this episode). Throughout this episode, we talk yet again about how the media has not changed in almost 60 years of talking about women.

For additional reading on fat stigma, we recommend this article from The Skimm.

Episode Transcription

So if artists were planets, what would your Zodiac chart be? Give me your sun, your moon, and your ride. This is inspired from a tip I sent you. I would give you my, my main sun rising in the moon, your moon and your rising. This is good.

I mean, my main has to be Janis Joplin. Okay. So you’re a Janice son. I’m a Janice son. I’m probably an under oath. Moon. Okay. And a thrice rising. Okay. No, a prince rising prince rising that I’m going to change that. So Janice son. Under oath, moon, and then prince rising, because I feel like prince is the perfect segue between the two.

I would be a Queens on a Taylor swift moon. Ooh. And a rolling stones rising. So you’re wearing darker for Taylor swift with a Freddie mercury. Oh. So you’re, Mercury’s in retrograde at all times. Someone made that joke in the comments and I had to steal it. Um, I’m Leo.

Well, I didn’t know you were going to just do the intro that fast. I was taking a sip. I’ll read you that. I’m Leah.

So this is our 50th episode. Technically it’s like, it’s like the 70 something piece of content we put out interviews, interviews. It’s just fun things that we do to entertain you all between the main episodes. Yes. And we have hit 50, which is crazy. Cause we’ve only been doing this for. Two years and three months.

Three, four months. Yeah. And, uh, who would have thought, who would have thought, who would have thought that means not a. Now it has been an insane ride. The wildest ride one. I did not think what happened to me in the sense of like, I knew we were going to start this. And of course, because I am a wing three, I had big aspirations, but I did not see it.

This way, this fast. No. And I’m happy about it. We have the best fans. We do. We love you all. We have the best community of podcasts that we support and they support us. It has just been, we’ve gained a family. We have insert Dominic thereto family here.

That’s a new stroke. I’m still obsessed with. Um, yeah, we’ve had. So many cool podcast friends come out of this. I would, I have thought about shutting them all out because then I’d forget one. And then I feel bad that I forgot you. So you’re our Twitter friend. You know who you are. We love you. Keep doing you, but also a special shout out to Anthony.

Is there a biggest fan? He doesn’t have a podcast, so I don’t feel bad listing him and like not listing others. Um, thank you. Every day I got a tweet from you and it just makes me happy, like recommending us to other people and just listening to every episode that we put out. So thank you. Uh, we’re going to skip the reviews today.

Because of that. Um, any, what has been your favorite moment in our 50 episodes so far? I think my favorite moment I’m going to go old is our second episode. And we’re talking about journey and we’re talking about a dude named herb and I, and he was a Kool-Aid man, man. I almost wish we didn’t cover that in the second one.

Cause that was such an amazing moments. That was time. First time I couldn’t breathe because I couldn’t get through the sentence because it just made no sense. But besides that, I mean, doing it with you, my best friend in the whole world. Dare. I even say ride or die. No, I hate that phrase. No, we got to get it tattooed on us.

So there is probably a bestie tattoo in our future. At some point it’s the frogs frogs, or the ghosts, the ghost. Well we’ll, you can get, uh, how about this? You get a black cat with a little ghosty thingy on it, and then I’ll get a beagle with a little ghosty thing on it. It’s done. I’ve won a black cat tattoos so bad.

It would be perfect. Cause you would just see like their little ears poking through and then you see a little black tail coming out and then you see the little beagle tail. Yes, this would be a great, this is happening. You’re you’re listening to this live. We literally have not discussed this before this moment.

My favorite moment was the one we opened the led Zeppelin wine. I went, ah, what a deep dive, because someone tweeted about it. Yes. Thank you. It was one of the guys at X radio. Sorry. If it wasn’t you, I get a lot. I wake up every day, right? To that to 23 Twitter notifications and I can’t keep them straight.

I’m sorry. Thank you for taking on social media sites every morning. Uh, But yeah, that, that was like, just like the cherry on top of that episode. It was, I think about it now for the last week ever since it’s totally, I’ll be a couple of days since he tweeted that. And I just remember it and start laughing, man.

It doesn’t help that they were playing it at the car dealership today. When I got my oil changed and I just started laughing, they were jamming in the dealership today. They slap in there. They, whoever curated that playlist, it had prints. It had Def Leppard. I was listening to something on my phone and I was like, nah, I’m just going to put my AirPods back in the case and listened to their music.

It’s a way to do it. Anyway, if you’re new here. Welcome. Welcome. We’re trying to remember to welcome you when we started episode, because we didn’t do it for like 47 episodes. So, um, stay awhile, go back and look at our back catalog. There’s a lot there that, uh, people are rediscovering someone rediscovered.

The Luke episode this week, I think it was Anthony. Now I wrote a joke to open this, but I’m not brave enough to talk about it, but Lee and I experienced it together. So we’ll leave it between us. The reason that this is the topic of the week and we’ll leave it at that I was. No, no only, only me and my stupid ass mistakes where we’re involved.

Anyway. So as Leah hinted, I feel qualified to cover this topic. Now

I wasn’t California dreaming. I was Virginia dream. And for sure. Yup. While watching a queen tribute band. Yup. It was a beautiful moment in our book in about, I don’t know, five years give it five years. I will write about this experience

that so you will know then until then you’re going to have to wait, just, just fill in the blanks. Um, we’re talking about one of the first psychedelic bands also what I’ve come to learn one of the first bands to integrate both female and male singers. And that is the mamas and Papas. Um, this is a slightly different episode than what we’ve done in the past, mainly because there’s a lot of crazy ass shit.

There’s a lot of fucked up shit. So it’s pretty much like every other episode. Yes. But I’m not talking about the music as much as I do. Like normally I kind of walk you through albums. I decide not to go that route because there’s just so much to cover. So please go, like, I’m going to say songs. Just go listen.

Okay. Maybe we’ll dig. Pretty good. Music will resurrect the PA the hot gas God, the Spotify account and make you a platelet. Um, but anyway, so there’s a lot. I felt like we needed to cover. I was a little bit different format than what we’d done before. Um, it’s also like different in that it doesn’t follow the usual.

Story arcs that our artists tend to take. It’s essentially like the sixties story with once upon a time in Hollywood slash Quintin Tarantino vibes, like literally he hints about some scenes we’re going to talk about in his movie. I did not know how bad it was though. So it’s pretty, it’s pretty crazy. I am going to throw a bunch of trigger warnings.

In this episode, I’m also going to give you some trigger warnings. Cause like I said, there’s a lot of fucked up shit that I’m not even necessarily comfortable talking about, but like anyway, deaths happening, there’s some ed and dysphoria talk. There’s some, uh, sexual. So just like, you know, the big three, the big three, if you will, but other than that, let’s get into it.

So I want to talk about each of these artists individually, and I’m going to start with my favorite Cass, Elliot, who is become. A hero to me as of late, um, Ellen, Naomi Cohen was born on September 19th in 1941 in Baltimore, Maryland, and spent most of her childhood between Alexandria, Virginia, and Baltimore.

Yeah, not too far away from us. Her family suffered a lot of financial hardships and her dad was always like starting businesses and then they’re not succeeding, but he finally did give one off the ground and it was a lunch wagon, two construction workers. She would help with that a lot. Also in an interview or it was an article I read regardless.

She has an IQ of 1 65 fun facts. So like certified genius level, pretty much. Yeah. She’s like I was watching this interview and it was weird. Cause you feel. Yeah. I was watching like an academic professor today. Weird. Does that make sense? Like just how she carried herself and how she talked? Yeah, it was very like, you could see it, but anyway, uh, she picked up the name CAS from actress, Peggy Cass, and settled on Elliot on her, a friend who passed her.

So Cass Elliot, while in high school, she picked up an interest in acting and after school was done, she went straight to New York city to find work. Um, she did tour with the music man for a little bit. She also was auditioning on Broadway for a show and she lost out to Barbara Streisand. If you’re going to lose that to somebody.

Yeah. Barbara is a good one. It’s a good choice. Like, it’s kind of like if I lost a role to share, it’s like, you know, it’s understandable. It’s, it’s not meant to be, you know, Cher walks in the room says, I want your job as a podcast. So as I say, here’s the mic, ma’am just pack your bags, pack the bags. It’s now she will rock you with and share.

Folk is what it is. And it’s fine. We’ll keep you as the editor. Don’t worry. Okay. That’s fine. Just put me on the grunt work.

Um, eventually though, after doing like the stint and musical theater, she would go to college in DC where she decided to take up singing as more of a career. And at first she was in the folk scene, which if you were in the early sixties, you’re in the folk scene, um, there’s really no other scenes except for maybe.

And it’s just pretty much the Polk, pretty much a focusing. Um, and she formed a trio with Tim rose and James Hendricks called the big three. That group lasted a couple years. Um, but after Tim left, the group teamed up with Zelle in no ski and Denny downward. Keep his name and mind. Um, and they formed my absolute favorite band name, the mug wimps that’s sounds like something out of Harry Potter.

I think it is actually some out of Harry Potter. Like I wrote there’s my notes warts. Oh. But anyway, it’s called the mug. Wamps I love it. Um, now a little bit of romantic history for you in 1963. So we’ll back up a little bit CAS and John Henry. Get married. Okay. However, it was completely platonic so that he could avoid the draft.

So they were married for five years, but it wasn’t a real marriage. It was. So he didn’t get drafted, getting married. Got you. Out of the draft, I guess. So how. Beats me. They literally just got married so that he didn’t have to go to war. I feel like that’s the cheapest way out of getting out of the draft.

I don’t blame him, but I feel like that shouldn’t just qualify you because it doesn’t disqualify you from active duty. I don’t know. That’s, that’s what, that’s what Wiki said. And that’s what we keep. That’s how it goes. That’s not the point of the show anyway. So, um, I’m not sure if this is during the mug.

Phase or not, but Cass starts developing feelings for Denny, which will become important later on. But we’re going to pause this story here. We love a good inter band romance. Yes. Oh, oh, you don’t even know this shitstorm. Uh, we’re going to move on to Michelle Phillips. Holly, Michelle Gilliam was born on June 4th, 1944 in long beach California.

Now her mom did sadly pass away when she was five years old because her mom had some heart issues going back from childhood. But after her mom passed, like she moved a couple of times with her dad. They like went to Buffalo back to California, and then they finally settled in Mexico city for six years.

So he can go study sociology. I’m at college there. And she said like, Mexico really helped her make peace with her. Mom’s passing and learned to be independent, which would come important in handy during the psychedelic movement. Anyway, um, when she served teen, she moves back to California this time to the Los Angeles area.

And she had to go like to a different couple of high schools because she kept getting, uh, she kept skipping class and being expelled. So that’s good, but she didn’t, she did play sports and she also found her love of music through piano, cello, and guitar. At 17, she started working as a model, doing ads for companies from beer to bathing suits.

And at this point her life, she gets immersed in the club scene of LA. And on one of those clubs, she meets a man named John Phillips paws on to Denny dirty. So Denny was born on November 29th, 1940 in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Not much about him. Isn’t his childhood, basically. He’s the due to the band. You know how there’s always one dude vibey.

You know the basis? No, he’s a singer, but he’s just vibing. Like he just exists. He would be the basis. Yeah. He would be the basis of this group, the yes, 100%. Um, but he grew up in a Catholic household. If that’s important to you. He’s the John deacon, John deacon of this group. That is exactly right. Uh, he formed a couple of bands in his youth.

The first one’s called the hipsters, which is terrible. The second is called the colonials, which they did end up getting signed to Columbia records. But I don’t know if they were like offended that some Canadians were like calling their band, the colonials, like this iconic American phrase. And they just changed it to Halifax three, which is just a horrible name.

Yeah. That sounds like a race car. How dare you take colonials. It’s not like you guys colonized your country. If they’re white, they’re colonizers. But America, no, we did it first.

anyway, they shortly broke up at 1965 and he moves on to his next venture, which would be the mug Wamps and meets CAS. And that’s about it for Denny. We’re going to talk about John Phillips and he’s last simply because I hate him, but not John Philip Sousa. No, I like him. I do not like John Philip. And you’ll see why in a bit.

So John Phillips was born August 30th, 1935 in Paris island, South Carolina, his family moved to Alexandria, Virginia area where he attended a military school, which was absolute hell for him. Um, he did eventually go to George Washington high school. It’s the same school CAS one too, but they never met.

I’m pretty sure, like they’d never met Alexandra. It is a big school, so, yeah. And they were like, they’re different ages too. Yeah. Like if anything, when she’s like coming in as a freshman, I think he was leaving as a senior in high school. He didn’t, he formed a. Oh, what what’d I say in high school, he formed a group of bros who sang do ops.

That’s what I wrote out of high school. He went to Hampton. Hey college down here, first spell. And then he dropped out the 1957. He marries the daughter of a wealthy Virginia family named Susan Adams. He has two kids. And then later on he’s like, I’m going to go form a folk trio cause that’s a 1960 or whatever.

A whatever year it is all there is to do. Yeah. And he calls it the journeymen. It was in this group that he begins to tour to places like California, where he meets a Mrs. Hall. Michelle Gilliam at the age of 17, they begin to have an affair nice. And this leads him and his wife to divorce. And he marries Michelle when she is 18.

And he is 27. Well, at least he waited until she was 18. Well, car’s very low. Anyway. Um, so we finally arrived at the formation of the singing, not duo. Um, To make a long story. Short is the combination of mug Wamps and journeymen. I don’t know why they didn’t call it mug Wamps journeying or dirty men discovered mug wimps, but whatever they need something shorter or easier to say, mug.

That’s a good name, new band name. I call it dammit mug womp journey. And it seems like it’s going to be this cross world between Pan’s labyrinth and Harry Potter and the Muppets. Um, literally whenever she say mug womp, I just think of the bog of eternal stench and labyrinth. Oh yeah. It’s all I can think about.

Yes. Anyway, so to expound a little bit more here, um, Michelle, Michelle and John they’re writing songs together and. Since you’re both folk bands, they probably met through those connections. I couldn’t really get a solid confirmation on that though. But Donnie was offered a spot in the new group that John was forming with Michelle and then cast hears about it.

And she was like, Hey, I want to join too. But John originally says no. And why is that? Besides him being a mug lump of a human? Well, let me tell you, he says no, because she’s overweight and in his eyes, she’s, the band will never be successful. Don’t worry, sixties. Her story gets a lot better. Kind of anyway, we’ll talk more about that, but she’s persistent.

Like she follows the group everywhere even to like the Virgin islands where they’re vacationing. And that was finally the point where they said, okay, fine. You can be in the band because you’re good for her. Yeah. But to the press who asked, like why it took so long for her to join cast, blamed it on her vocal range and then sends a rolling stone in like 1968.

I did get hit on the head by a pipe that fell down and my range was increased by three notes. That’s what she says. They were tearing this club. And the islands revamping it and putting in a dance floor, Workman dropped a thin metal pipe and it hit me on the head and knocked me to the ground. I had a concussion and went to the hospital.

I had a bad headache for two weeks and all of a sudden I was singing higher. It’s true. Honest to God. I don’t believe that I don’t either. I personally believe. She was kind of embarrassed by John’s actual reasoning. And, but that was the best excuse she came up with. She’s very specific though. I don’t care.

It makes it more believable, but anyway, so that’s, it breaks my heart though, that. She had to put up a facade, you’ll see that through her life. Like she’s always putting up this facade because people are just fucking assholes during that time, like absolute fucking assholes. But anyway, uh, the group first start rehearsing in the Virgin islands, which is where they like really learned to nail down their sounds like John really loved folk and he is the Jimmy page or this group, if you will, he’s calling the shots and.

He just didn’t want to give it up. Cause he’s so good at it. And the rest of the band wanted to go more on a pop direction. So they landed on this folk pop sound and like Cass Elliot said in an interview in a London, I forget who it was like, no one had heard that sound before, so, and anyway, so. They arrived back at LA and they get signed to Dunhill records.

Originally the group was going to choose the name, the magic circle, but eventually lift it up mama’s and Papa’s taking inspiration from good old hell’s angels because the female members are called mamas, which I did not know. I don’t like that. Yeah. How do you feel knowing the hell’s angels call their female members?

Mamas? I don’t like anything about the hell’s angels after the rolling stones. I really do not understand sixties artists obsession with the hell’s angels. They realize they’re a gang that her people, but they were good security. So they weren’t, they weren’t not, but they thought they were. Yeah, I really, truly don’t agree.

But they first debut, uh, their first debut was recording, um, backing vocals for one of, uh, Barry McGuire’s albums. And he also helped them make the connection with Dunhill records. Like one thing, if you’ve ever heard any of their music, like their harmonies are just incredible. Like they’re just impeccable.

I argue Cass. Elliot is what made those harmonies good. Cause she has a lower voice. She has a control of the voice. Um, but yeah, their harmonies are just bar none. They’re just amazing. Um, So they released her first song in 1965 in November of 1965. It’s called go, where you want to go. It does not chart. So it did not go where they wanted it to go.

But, um, so they try again and they released the single California dreamin. If you do not know that song, you’re lying to yourself. Like for some reason I have this memory. Of the song in elementary school, ladies to play in elementary school. For some reason I can only think of the, was it an, a raise in commercial at some point?

Yeah. Yeah. Terrifying California. Yeah. Cause, cause it’s California. I think you’re, I think you’re right. That is the memory associated with the song in my head. So there you go. It might be a Mandela effect. We don’t know, but anyway, um, so. This song was first recorded by John and Michelle together, but it found new life in mama’s and Papa’s, um, it’s also worth noting, like how crazy his second single took off, because we don’t really see that a lot.

Um, but like, They released in December. It didn’t start charting until like January of 1966. And the song was originally written in New York when they were living in New York. And Michelle was like, you know, dreaming about warm California weather, but basically how it got launched. So fast was. They sent the record to a California company.

I’m sorry, a radio station. And they were like, ma it’s fine. They sent it to Boston and Boston’s like, oh yeah, turn this shit up. Yeah. And so there you go. That’s. Shut up from there. And I reached number four on the billboard 100, it’s like number 23 in the UK and it certified gold. And like I said, this is like a new sound for the sixties.

No one had really heard this before, especially their type of harmonies. Um, so it’s definitely taken a new direction and it gave way to the psychedelic rock scene. Cause that’s coming shortly after. But this song would appear on their first album. If you can believe your eyes and ears. This also contained the hit Monday, Monday, which is, um, they’re only number one, single oddly.

Um, it also won a Grammy for best pop performance by a duo or a group with. Very long title group with vocals was a category. Yes. As opposed to group without vocals. Yes. Um, the album has been listed as numbers. 117 on rolling Stone’s 500 greatest albums in 2012. I doubt it’s still there, but it was at one point.

Really briefly. My favorite fact about this album is the cover because sixties music really does have the best album covers best vinyl covers. And this one like is tamed by those standards, but upon its initial, release it to the band is in the bath. And they’re all in a tub together. They’re all closed.

It’s just a cute little like, Hey, you know, you just hang out with your friends and you get a time, you take goofy photo, but there’s a toilet next to it because it’s in a bathroom. Yeah. That toilet, something about it got sixties people up in arms. And I don’t know if it’s because opposite sex people were in the tub, like, but it was that toilet.

It was a toilet that was considered indecent and the guy basically threatened to get taken off the shelves. So eventually they started like covering up the toilet with like a sticker that said featuring California dreaming and then hits like Monday, Monday in California dreaming so that people would put on the shelves.

With the lit up for the lid down. It doesn’t really like it’s, doesn’t have a lid. It’s just a toilet. Oh, it’s like an old bathroom school, bathroom toilet. If, if you can imagine that they’re just pressed by this toilet for no good reason. Like I said, it doesn’t matter if the opposite sex people were in a tub together, the toilet, the toilet that bothers them, but not okay in the sixties.

No, no, they’re not. So this next section is rightly called sexual tension because everyone in the band is fucking. Yeah, exactly. Remember how I told you she loves Denny. Yeah. Unfortunately Denny does not love her back because he’s having an affair with Michelle and supposedly according to an interview with Michelle, In a vanity fair, Michelle and Denny would play footsies under the table.

Well, discussing parts for the next songs without cast and John knowing about it, her own husband in the room. Um, but eventually the fare is found out. Cast is devastated and actually went to Michelle was like, I don’t get it. Like you could have any man you want, why do you have to take mine? Like she was really pissed off and I understand rightfully so.

Um, but that didn’t really stop casts from pursuing him. Like she even proposed marriage to him at one point and he like flat out rejected her, but cast deserves better. Like I said, he is the John deacon of the group, which just vibing, he’s just vibing and she’s a star, you know what I mean? She’s the.

She’s the Freddie, he’s the John. She has better places to be. We need the, we need the, we need the John deacons. We need him, we need them. But you know, w when you’re in love, that’s exactly it. You nailed it on the head. You can’t have a John of Freddy situation. That’s what we want to avoid. Um, I don’t also know where this fits in, so I’m going to put it here.

She does have a daughter in 1967, which. Kept the identity of the father hidden for the longest time, the one her daughter got older, um, Michelle helped locate her biological dad and it was a session guitarist for the band. So she obviously had a good rebound anyway. So back to this. John finds out they reconcile, but then Michelle has another affair.

I think they were, she had to be having these two affairs at the same time because she believed in free love according to an interview and she was heartbroken and she was heartbroken. Um, so she started having an affair with gene Clark of the bird. And this resulted in John Phillips kicking his own wife out of the group in 1966 while they’re working on their second album.

Cause that’s a good idea. Yeah. Imagine the fucking tension in that house. This is, I mean, people think that Fleetwood Mac had some tension. This is war, this is thousand times worse and like wasn’t right for her to have an affair absolute on. But was John acting completely fairly? No, because he’s making an emotional revenge based decision.

And so they brought in another singer named Jill Gibson, who is the girlfriend of Lou AB Adler, who is the producer of Dunhill records. She said in an interview, cause I read a whole thing that she sat down with us. A website that like, she just happened to be there. And it was kind of those situations where she was like, like John had to convince her to join it.

Cause she was like, I’m not getting in the middle of this. Yeah. And John’s like, no, Michelle’s never coming back in the band. That’s settled. And she was like, hesitant. Cause she’s like, all right, fine. If you can tell me, like she’s not coming back and it’s going to be cool, then I’ll come back. And then two months later, Michelle’s back surprise, surprise.

The fans said, no, you bring her back. And rightfully so, she came back and Joe was compensated for our work and that was it. She’s in it for two months. Um, many wives. The next album that they have is called the mamas and Papas. It’s just self-titled that’s when they were working on. Jill said that she recorded 10 songs for that record.

It’s unclear if Michelle record rerecorded those parts or not to this day, no one really knows what Jill’s things on, what Michelle sings on. Interesting. Um, as far as for the artwork, collectors have had a field day with this. So at first they had already shot the album cover with Michelle. And they tried to super impose Jill in the most beta version of Photoshop ever, wherever the days cut out her photo and taped it and then make copies.

If you look at like, cause they’re literally like in this like window sill almost, and Michelle’s like, In the window. So that’s pretty damn hard to superimpose another human being on a green screen or something. Exactly. So that didn’t work. So they shot a completely different album cover and they went ahead and renamed the whole album crash and screaming all fall down.

A few thousands of those were sent to records stations, like as a, you know, pressing, but Michelle was back in the band before they did their official release. So they just went back to square one. But those things go for a pretty penny because there’s only a couple thousand of them printed. Um, here’s something else really interesting about like this era for like Jill was around for a little bit.

She said that she only did five shows with the group. And for each of those shows, John made everyone take drugs in the band. Okay. Made them. I mean, I’m sure it, wasn’t very hard to convince someone in the sixties, but still terrible, terrible leadership experience here. Don’t do this. This is not a leader of the year.

Okay. Um, but even when they’re doing late night recordings, they would have to take drugs to stay awake. Like John would like say you have to take drugs to stay awake. Um, but anyway, those are just some interesting stories. I’m not gonna talk too much with the accolades because there’s not much about it.

So John and Michelle, obviously not only did they reconnect his band mates, but they become reconnect as partners as well. Things are so Rocky though. Like they never get back into it. And John just deteriorates from there and continues to be a piece of shit, human by one. Um, in 1967, the band only decides to make another album called the mamas.

Yeah, the mamas and Papas deliver, um, which I also don’t have too much time to cover. There’s also not a lot about it either, but they, John and Michelle and their longtime record producer friend, Lou Adler, decided to create an event called Monterrey. Festival. We know that we do know that. Um, we also can go ahead and title this.

The beginning of the end for the bam done, done one. They are completely stressed too. They are completely unrehearsed because site one stress. They’re doing drugs when they are rehearsing. Yes. So you’re not gonna remember what you were correct. So nothing good is going to come out of this and their performance was not that great.

According to like, I don’t know the scholars, um, John was still reeling from Michelle’s affair. So he’s drinking on top of the drugs. Never a good combo. And. You know, they’re fruits is labor though, did provide one good thing, which is Janice Joplin was discovered at that event and Jimi Hendrix, Jimi Hendrix.

So it was all worth it in my book. Yeah. Two of the best artists came out of that event, but after Monterey pop, um, we’re going to fast forward a little bit to 1968 here. The band is planning some shows across the pond in the UK, and they want to just get their inspiration flowing again and up to this point.

They’re not really getting along. Um, however, the night before, one of the shows casts Elliot is arrested for stealing some blankets and a key from a hotel brand takes that very seriously. Well also that’s back when I was like a physical key. That’s true. So you couldn’t get that. I’m sure there were other copies, but very true.

So, and there was like an unsettled bill, but she gave her friend the money, but that friend never paid it. So friend. Yeah. What a friend, but she was acquitted because who the fuck has time to go to trial over some bedsheets, Britain and they throw her an acquittal party. And I think it’s at Mick Jagger’s house.

That’s incredible. And. And so she’s talking to Mick Jagger about the event and here comes Melfi, Johnny, basically accusing Cass of lying and about how the event went and so on and so forth. And that event at the sixties, drug party over bedsheets arrest led to Cass screaming at John and the band breaking up over some sheets over it.

Well really over John being an asshole. The, the L the spark that lit the flame of rebellion with the crumb trail was sheeps drugs. John, probably Mick Jagger, somewhere in there. I don’t know where I’m going to place him, but yeah, that’s the, that’s the crumb trail to them breaking up. Um, but yeah, Catholic told the press we’re done.

This is it. So they canceled their shows. Um, and they both like all four pretty much go to separate corners of the world. Like, I think cast went to Paris. John. And Michelle went to Morocco and Denny went back to United States, but they do get when they all kind of regroup and go back into the United States, they were able to pull together for one last album called the Papas and the mamas.

I don’t know if I liked that or hate that. Yeah. But then after that they were done. That was it.

Usually we under episodes here, we talk about legacy, but I have like four more pages to go. Cause like, this is when this is, this is when shit starts hitting the fan. Like you thought we covered some crazy shit. Buckle up. You know, the band’s broken up. This is the sixties we’re approaching 1969. Where are the Colts?

Wow. I have a story for you because we’re picking this up in 1969 and Cass Elliot has become a popular person. She’s hosting these elaborate parties in LA. Michelle’s having a fair again. John is probably doing drugs and seeding in the corner because Cassie is doing better than him and becoming a real solo act.

And I don’t know where Denny is by. I imagine he’s at a Denny’s grand slam at 2:00 AM. And at one of those parties, I’m not, I’m not sure when exactly, but a man by the name of Charles Manson.

I don’t know why I’m excited about this because it involves death. I feel bad. It’s real. It’s Charles Manson though. But then the man that Michelle was having an affair with is Roman Polanski husband of Sharon Tate’s. So when the Sharon Tate murder happens, Rowan immediately points a finger. John feels.

Immediately and says this was revenge. And could you blame him the fuck? He’s emotionally incumbent. But anyway, then the police come in and say, no, no, no, it was called it. Wasn’t cool. It wasn’t cold, but yeah, isn’t that nuts. So like they talk about a little bit about Cass Elliot and her parties in the movie.

Crazy Charles Manson was at that party. But anyway, it’s just a wild story. Um, but now we’re going to talk about after the ban a little bit more, and we’re going to talk about John. You’re now going to find out why I don’t like this dude, if the rest, the rest wasn’t good enough, the rest wasn’t good enough, but him and Michelle do eventually divorce, which is probably the right move because there’s some toxicity on both sides, a little bit more on one side, but you know, um, he remarries a couple times, he gets really bad into doing drugs.

Like to the point his fingertips begin turning black, which I did not know. That was something that could happen from drugs does not sound healthy. So he goes to rehab and whatnot. Then in the eighties, he forms a new troop called the new mama’s and Papa’s cause he’s trying to relive the glory days and it’s him and three other new members.

One of those members being his eldest daughter, Mackenzie. They didn’t last too long at all. Eventually he passes away in 2001 and welcome to the section of why I do not like him. And I’m going to put a big sexual assault trigger on this. Please feel free to pass this action. And it will probably be over in five minutes, but after like a few years after he passes his daughter, Mackenzie accuses him of incestual rape for 10 years.

Yeah. This poor thing. And he would. Drugs and to her and he would take drugs and then she got pregnant and didn’t know who the father was and had to have an abortion. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you know, after that, she’s like, I have to fight for this. I’m not gonna let this happen, but it’s just so fucking messed up and like, History has shown this.

This dude was not good. He was not a good dude. I mean, just look at his track record. Like I don’t like to judge people, but look at the track record. So don’t come at us in the reviews and try to defend. I will stand by everything. I have literally outlined this dude’s life for you. Like he’s not a good dude.

Anyway, um, Michelle on her end, she went into acting and actually had a successful. It’s good for her and Denny pretty much and had a family and brought them to Denny’s for a grand slam. He did the John deacon thing just wanted to live a peaceful life and he moved on. So I want to end this story about Cass Elliot.

I really want to shine a light on her struggles and how the industry treated her. And once again, this is some really triggering language about like weight, stigma and fat phobic remarks. So please feel free to skip this section. I will not be offended and say this. Um, but I’m also going to go in and give you some hottest takes because there was some, there was some, you know, the Skimm.

The Skimm actually talked about this today and their article and did a whole write-up about weight stigma. And it was just the fuel. I needed to finish a section before I talk about it, though. Let’s talk about how awesome she is. Cause like I said, she had, she is just so talented. She has this amazing control of voice.

Just listen to her, sing the song, dream a little dream. Do you mean control? What the fuck did I say Controlo well, that’s why I have my notes. I think you mean control, Alto. It didn’t correct me. So I’m going to control though. I showed up Spanish or something. Well, it’s in their control. This is a rolling stones moment.

Um, she had her home that she opened, like kinda as a sanctuary to other musicians, like Joni Mitchell and Crosby stills and Nash, just so right, man. No for real. And like people just remark about her warmth, her friendliest, her wit keep in mind. She has 165 IQ. Okay. Yeah. She genius a sharp mind, but. So after mamas and Papas, she has a very successful solo career, but for some reason, people in the industry and tabloids just can’t let her be successful.

That sounds familiar. Neo. They insist to have to point out. That she is successful despite her size. Furthermore, if she has a flop, they bring fat phobic named calling into the picture to give you an example, here’s just the first two opening sentences in a time magazine article dating. Uh, 1969 quote, four years ago, she hit the American scene in her size, 50 Moomoo resembling a Hudson Hora Hornet draped in one of Omar’s tents.

I don’t know what that means, but look, what happened to mama Cass Elliott. After two years of dieting, she has shed more than 120 pounds down from 2 92, a mere 1 64. So is that all the fucking matter? Her dress size, a disgusting allegory about her appearance and like how she has met your warp distinction of worth assigned by her like number.

Let me show you the fruit of that rhetoric that she had to deal with. She was gearing up for a set of shows as Caesar palace in Las Vegas. And I’m not sure if like she made this decision or if management, it’s probably a combination of both, but she would put herself on a diet which consisted of her completely fasting, no eating for four to five days.

That’s not healthy and would only drink water. No. Causing her to lose a hundred pounds in six months, no 16 pounds in a month. That’s not healthy. No, it is not. And the severe dieting caused her to develop throat and stomach issues.

She was confined to her bed for three weeks. She also like tried to Sue that with cream because they didn’t know it was tonsillitis, which caused her to gain weight very rapidly too. And I’m not saying that to shame her, but this is the show how fast would acceleration and de acceleration what that body takes.

Um, but yeah, she had to be confined to a bed for three weeks as a result of this illness. I, when it came time to have her first performance, people were like, don’t go out there. You can cancel it. But she was like, no, I gotta go. And she just cannot sing. Yeah. Because of her throat issues. And they closed the show after like one or two and the tabloid.

Called it a Titanic disaster pointing at her weight. That’s so sad. Yeah. It’s literally nothing has changed. No, no, no, no, no. Exactly. The skin was talking about Lizzo. Yes, it was. I have a whole section about that here. Um, however, despite this disappointment, she keeps going, um, she did television programs.

She even had her own program called the mama Cass television program. She was on. You know, Julia Andrews hour, a bunch of other things, um, and also had albums and other performances, which I’m so glad that she kept doing that. But one interview I was reading from her daughter, Owen, you know, she always said her mom would put on a brave face because every single time they would make the.

You know, fat jokes in just right and good humor. And she would just have to stick through it. Yeah. And in 1974 and April, 1970, She collapsed on the Johnny Carson show. Doctors were quick to diagnose her as extortion, probably because they didn’t want to know. Cause that is very popular in a lot of plus size people.

We have to fight to get actual doctors to do their fucking job. Um, anyway, um, what they didn’t know is that the muscles. Around her heart had weakened because of extreme dieting was basically anorexic at that point. Yeah. She was fasting and then she would eat something for two days. You cannot, she kept doing that.

According to her daughter, she kept doing that and underlie 28th, she was talking to Michelle because she had this incredible show at this really famous. Uh, like theater, like a Carnegie hall, so to speak in London. And she was so excited cause she was, her career was finally where she wanted it to be. And the next day she was found dead in her apartment.

Um, it was due to heart failure and it was linked because of the extreme dieting. So you can’t just not eat now. But the tabloids can’t let this poor woman rest in peace because instead they said that she choked on a ham sandwich, even time magazine at the time of her death published this tale along with citing her height and weight.

Once she joined the group. That is how they mourned her. Ridiculous. Because Karen Carpenter literally died the exact same way. Like a year later it was treated so much differently in the headlines. Yeah. You know, like, like you were saying, not much has changed now. Literally nothing’s changed. Nothing much has changed.

Like you were referencing. I was watching. Instagram live with Lizzo and she was crying, you know, and she’s the embodiment of positivity. And she was even breaking down in tears due to comments that people were making about her new song and calling her a bunch of fat phobic and racist tropes. She is one of the strongest examples that we have in the media today of body positivity.

And yet she is human and those nasty phrases got to her. And for me writing this, it’s just a reminder of how society treats you. If you’re a bigger woman, it’s not just the tabloids, it’s the health industry. It’s a pop culture of time and you’re just diminishing. Based off of your appearances. So I hope we learned from this, that we treat our artists with a lot more respect.

Um, you know, cause like Cass, Elliot, like a lot of artists that we’ve covered who have died prematurely, these guys were like pouring their souls on stage and. We need to, uh, reciprocate appreciation back because it’s just so hard on these guys and, you know, there’s just so much damage that can be done.

But I want to remember her for who she is as a person, because she persevered through some absolute horrible hurt. I mean, constantly day in and day out. When the interview I was watching and UK, they started by saying the guy asked her, well, you’re hesitant about doing interviews. Well, no shit. I wonder why when you get attacked every time you open your mouth every single time, but she just.

You know, she was human. She wanted to have her career. She wanted to raise her daughter, but the industry would not let her be. Everything started with her weight and everything ended with her weight, not who she was as a person. So this has been an application. Leah, this has been an application to give Cass Elliott the respect that she actually deserves and to give her our coveted patron Saint hood to make her a Saint.

All right. You heard it here folks. On our 50th episode, we got a new site to bro. We got two seats in a row. Yeah. Bonnie and Cass. Cass Elliot is joined our patron saints and John. Joining our Lucifer’s who can burn in hell, um, shake a banishment list. Banishing Crosby and John Phillips. Yes. Um, but that’s it like for the band?

Like, unfortunately, like Denny has passed too. Michelle is the last surviving members. They weren’t. Long ago, like, yeah, she knows she’s 80 something. That’s crazy. Isn’t that crazy? It doesn’t feel like it because it still feels like 2000 to me. Um, but yeah, I hope she’s doing well. And like I said, I didn’t cover as much music, but there’s a lot to cover.

I think we’re at what? 53 minutes. Yeah, it was just so much to cover. So anyway. Yeah. What’d you drinking? I’m drinking a Vienna shit. The whole thing poured out while I was drinking a devil’s backbone. Oh. Fest, which is a very suggestive name logger. Um, it’s like, oh, prince fess. Like what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

That’s an apostrophe, but yes. Anyway, smooth multi with bready notes. Ready? It is now mostly on the floor. Cause I guess, you know, At some point during this reporting, honestly, a Blum’s in so nicely. I didn’t even notice. Yeah. It just sounds like a shadow. Yeah. I have a great carpet and it just looks like a darker gray carpet now.

Yeah. Well what’s the review. Every review. Well, you go, oh shit. Do you like it? Yeah. It’s good. It’s devil’s backbone. I think, I don’t know if you said that. Yeah. It’s devil’s backbone. They have their shop. Not too far from us. God, they have great food. They have a great atmosphere. Elle king just played there, but I didn’t get to go see her and Nellie’s food and their Nellie’s bird on the Nelson, 1 51 there’s life fear, their favorite places to go in this world.

thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review. Wherever you leave podcast reviews. If you leave it on apple podcasts, it will help us out a lot. Special. Thanks to death of Fon. For intro riff, you can visit our website. She will rock you.com there you’ll find show notes, link to our socials ways to contact us and merchandising merchandising.

And remember, don’t do drugs, please. Don’t do that. Dreads, the force, others to do drugs, especially the ladder.

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